{"id":6272,"date":"2021-04-12T08:00:44","date_gmt":"2021-04-12T06:00:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.henle.de\/blog\/en\/?p=6272"},"modified":"2021-04-11T18:49:51","modified_gmt":"2021-04-11T16:49:51","slug":"my-fingering-may-inspire-to-play-in-the-right-style-interview-with-pascal-roge","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blog.henle.de\/en\/2021\/04\/12\/my-fingering-may-inspire-to-play-in-the-right-style-interview-with-pascal-roge\/","title":{"rendered":"\u201cMy fingering may inspire to play in the right style\u201d \u2013 Interview with Pascal Rog\u00e9"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Pascal Rog\u00e9<\/p><\/div>\n

To celebrate the French pianist Pascal Rog\u00e9\u2019s 70th<\/sup> birthday on 6 April 2021, we asked him for an interview. He represents worldwide one of his generation\u2019s best-known performers of 19th<\/sup>-\u2002and 20th<\/sup>-century French music, setting interpretative standards for this music in his concerts, master classes and CD recordings. For ten years now he has been collaborating with the G. Henle publishers to provide fingering for the piano parts of 18 Urtext editions \u2013 for works by French composers, of course, ranging from Saint-Sa\u00ebns through Chabrier and Faur\u00e9 up to Satie und Ravel.<\/p>\n

Peter Jost (PJ): Mr Rog\u00e9, you studied at the Paris Conservatoire with Lucette Descaves, formerly a student of Marguerite Long\u2019s. M. Long was indeed still in close touch with composers such as Faur\u00e9, Debussy and Ravel. What role at that time did her fingerings play, and were they then ranked as authentic?<\/span><\/p>\n

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Lucette Descaves (1906\u20131993)<\/p><\/div>\n

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Marguerite Long (1874-1966)<\/p><\/div>\n

Pascal Rog\u00e9 (PR): About fingerings, I remember a phrase of my teacher, Lucette Descaves: \u201cFingerings are like shoes, they don\u2019t fit anyone\u201d. Something I often repeat to my own students, BUT if my teacher was not \u201cdirective\u201d on her fingerings, she had a few \u201cprinciples\u201d that were very helpful: \u201calways follow the shape of your hands\u2026 avoid turns\u2026 if you have a choice, certain fingers are more expressive\u2026 or more powerful\u2026 so, choose carefully\u2026\u201d and although she was a pupil of Marguerite Long, she disagreed with Long\u2019s motto: \u201cno thumbs on black keys\u201d, a rule I personally never understood!<\/p>\n

Concerning my knowledge about fingerings I also had the heritage of two great Masters in the subject: Yves Nat and Lazare L\u00e9vy.<\/p>\n

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Yves Nat (1890\u20131956)<\/p><\/div>\n

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Lazare L\u00e9vy (1882\u20131964)<\/p><\/div>\n

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Yves Nat was the teacher of my mother and Lazare L\u00e9vy the teacher of Louise Clavius-Marius, a today rather unknown teacher who assisted Lucette Descaves, but was a real genius on fingering and practicing. I owe her nearly everything of my piano technique and fingering skills.<\/p>\n

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Lucette Descaves’ piano class in 1965. Lucette Descaves is sitting on the far right, the Lab\u00e8que sisters next to her and Pascal Rog\u00e9 in the centre. Standing fourth from left is Louise Clavius-Marius (1906-1975, with hat).<\/p><\/div>\n

As to the question, \u201cwere there any \u2018authentic\u2019 fingerings\u201d: Neither Faur\u00e9, Debussy nor Ravel were good pianists, so they hardly ever mentioned any fingerings, and when they did, I consider them as \u201csuggestive\u201d but never compulsory.<\/p>\n

I am sure you are familiar with the words of Debussy in his \u00c9tudes<\/em>\u2019s first edition: \u201cI intentionally do not mention any fingerings\u201c, therefore: \u201cCherchons nos doigt\u00e9s!\u201d<\/p>\n

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Camille Saint-Sa\u00ebns, title page of the first print of his 5th Piano Concerto, Paris, Biblioth\u00e8que nationale de France<\/p><\/div>\n

PJ: In our Debussy interview<\/a> you observed that if you thought that the original fingerings and hand distributions would stand in the way of an adequate interpretation, you would then change them. I remember, for instance, the finale of the Saint-Sa\u00ebns 5th<\/sup> Piano Concerto (HN 1144)<\/a>, measures 6 ff., where you reversed the hand distribution in opposition to the notation:<\/span><\/p>\n

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PR: I strongly believe in fingering \u201carrangements\u201d, as long as they do help and remain unnoticeable. Some arrangements turn out to be more difficult or awkward than the original was!<\/p>\n

As the example here, in the Saint-Sa\u00ebns 5th<\/sup> Concerto this \u201carrangement\u201d is mainly to make Saint-Sa\u00ebns\u2019 wish possible, to accent the top note of the chord, something very difficult to achieve if played with just one hand, for then the accent would undoubtedly involve the whole chord.<\/p>\n

PJ: You go even a step further in the first movement of Faur\u00e9\u2019s 1st<\/sup> Violin Sonata (HN 980)<\/a> and cancel the composer\u2019s own explicit hand distribution by means of his m. g. <\/span><\/em>(m. 140):<\/span><\/p>\n

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Gabriel Faur\u00e9 (1845\u20131924)<\/p><\/div>\n

Could you explain your view of this spot?<\/span><\/p>\n

PR: This is typical of a composer\u2019s fingering, thinking that the entire musical phrase should be played with the same hand, and also from a \u201cnot so good\u201d pianist (Faur\u00e9 was an excellent organist, but that\u2019s something else again!). My fingering is much easier to perform and won\u2019t make any difference in the result, it is actually not an \u201carrangement\u201d it is just logical (sorry Gabriel!).<\/p>\n

PJ: You have taken on fingerings for the three Satie titles (Sonatine bureaucratique<\/span><\/em> HN 1075<\/a>, Avant-derni\u00e8res Pens\u00e9es<\/span><\/em> HN 1181<\/a> and Nocturnes<\/span><\/em> HN 1205<\/a>). This may surprise us at first, since coming from his Gymnop\u00e9dies<\/span><\/em> or Gnossiennes<\/span><\/em>, his piano works are considered relatively simple. But is there still another aspect besides what\u2019s technical?<\/span><\/p>\n

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Erik Satie (1866\u20131925)<\/p><\/div>\n

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PR: Fingerings do influence interpretation and the choice of a specific finger will produce a different sound. That is how I approached fingering Satie who as you mentioned, is not technically challenging but asks for a special atmosphere, sound, transparency, simplicity\u2026 I wish my fingering may inspire and help the performer to play Satie in the right style.<\/p>\n

PJ: Could you demonstrate this with an example?<\/span><\/p>\n

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PR: Take, for instance, \u201cNocturne\u201d no. 2, measure 14, right hand:<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>This shows that I do favour the \u201cphysical\u201d legato with the fingers but rather a \u201ctransparent\u201d and clear sound obtained with a \u201chalf-pedal\u201d legato which \u201cfloats\u201d above the keys rather than sticking to them … It\u2019s hard to express with words and even harder to show with numbers! But by indicating \u201cleaping\u201d fingerings I hope the performer will look at legato \u201cdifferently\u201d … Am I being a bit presumptuous in wanting to suggest a particular sound by way of a fingering? Yet this is the meaning I am giving to fingering \u201ceasy\u201d scores like Satie: suggesting by the fingering a sound and stylistic approach.<\/p>\n

PJ: What role do fingerings play when you yourself are teaching, such as in your master classes? Is this an important issue, or is it an aspect only occasionally addressed?<\/span><\/p>\n

PR: It depends\u2026 I always watch the student\u2019s fingering but if it\u2019s musically convincing and does not seem to be a problem, I will not change anything (see my teacher\u2019s \u201cshoe\u201d phrase!). But if the sound is not appropriate or the legato unsure, or if I can see that the student is \u201cstruggling\u201d with a difficulty, then I will suggest another fingering, but only suggest, I always say \u201cTry it, and if you feel more comfortable, do it\u2026if not, forget it!\u201d<\/p>\n

I also try to give them some logical approach to fingering, some concept they can apply to other pieces. I do the same with interpretation, I am there to help them play however they wish\u2026not to impose my own vision of the piece, but things like sound, colours, articulation, balance, art of pedalling, construction of a phrase\u2026 can be applied to any repertoire and any interpretation.<\/p>\n

PJ: I thank you very much for this interview and look forward to our collaboration on further editions in the G. Henle publishing house.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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